@ButterflyOfFire There needs to be more UX around this issue. I dont think its as big of a problem once you get used to it but as a new comer its damn confusing

@ButterflyOfFire

@liaizon

Isn't the open web basically federated and don't we have distributed search engines that work well? Can't we build that into app/server and give admins the option of what/how-much to make visible?

@wjmaggos @ButterflyOfFire go for it! The situation we have is based on the protocol design and the current implementations but that doesn’t mean thats how it has to be.

@ButterflyOfFire @liaizon
This is a problem or feature of federation and predates the arrival of Mastodon on the federated scenery. See my https://simsa01.wordpress.com/2015/12/10/some-reasons-perhaps-not-to-join-gnu-social-and-the-fediverse/ sect. 3.4

Reactions have been threefold:
1) Firehoses -- that is, bots that reside on one instance & aim to follow as many other accounts on other instances to make them "visible" to the bot's instance.
2) Laemur's tool " FEDIVERSE Conversation Assembler Thing" to grab all participating posts of an individual conversatioon tree http://laemeur.sdf.org/gs/convo
3) Some think that the lack of getting all contributions to a conversation tree (as special case of not getting all posts of the entire Fediverse, that is, of not getting the posts your instance doesn't "see") is not a bug but a feature, as conversation are trust relations, based on invitations, and as In RL, nobody has contact to everybody else. Thus the lack of access to all possible posts of all accounts on all instances is a imitation of RL communication, and not to "fear" . See: https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/gnu-social-federation-against-the-social-model-of-twitter/2015/04/25

Basically it's how federation is technically constructed. Which is also the reason why "freedom of speech" is so intimately connected with federation: Curtail one, and you curtail the other. (That's the reason why mutual instance blocking and the subsequent subdivision of the Fediverse in mutual exclusive Sub-Fediverses is even possible.)

cc @lnxw48a1

@simsa03 @ButterflyOfFire @lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net thanks for this. This is the reason I think its more of a UX issue then a technical one. There must be a way of making it clear in interface to new comers of the potential network topology. It would be interesting to work on some interfaces for exposing these mechanics.

@liaizon
I'm no techie and can't comment to the technical details. Explaining the weirdness to non-tech newcomers has´been the goal of the blog post I mentioned. Some issues mentioned then seem to have been fixed in the meantime, like deletion of posts across instances or direct message imitation (scope limitation) across instances.

I guess the best "strategy" is to remind newcomers that instead of one centralized instance (twitter) which at least in principle can make avaliable every post via a search and database crawling, federation and its communal realization, the Fediverse, is people centred. That is: You can only get "new" or "interesting" information via direct contact with *people*, not with automatically searchable databases of instances. That I think is the utmost importance and beauty of the Fediverse, with all the nuissances involved. The Fediverse is a web of people, that relies on the interaction of people; not an assembly of botlike folks whose contributions can, at least in principle, be found without ever asking the people directly.

I feel this should be the intro: You cannot auotmate real life; and the Fediverse is one of the few example in which features of the RL have been successfully copied.

@ButterflyOfFire
@lnxw48a1
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